INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI‘I: Bargaining Power


“NEGOTIATE” obtain or bring about by
discussion. The State of Hawaii is currently negotiating
new contracts for nearly 45,000 public employees, represented by 14 bargaining
units, within 6 major unions. Despite record
setting tax collection, the Governor has warned this is going to be a tough year
financially. Union reps say such predictions are
diminished. In the end who will hold the bargaining
power? This live broadcast and live stream of
INSIGHTS on PBS Hawaii start now. [INTRO MUSIC]>>>ALOHA AND WELCOME TO
INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII. I’M DARRYL HUFF WITH HAWAII
NEWS NOW. HAWAII HAS A HISTORY OF UNION
ADVOCACY AND POLITICAL CLOUT THAT STARTED DURING THE
PLANTATION ERA WITH STRONG SUPPORT AND POLITICAL SUPPORT
FROM THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. THE STATE HAS THE SECOND
HIGHEST PERCENTAGE OF UNION MEMBERSHIP IN THE NATION BEHIND
NEW YORK AND WORKERS WHO BELONG TO THE PUBLICLY UNIONS
REPRESENT THE MAJORITY OF ALL UNION MEMBERS IN HAWAII. STATE AND COUNTY EMPLOYEES ARE
DIVIDED INTO BARGAINING UNITS WITH SIX UNIONS REPRESENTING
THEM. ORGANIZED LABOR ENGAGES IN
POLITICAL AND LEGISLATIVE ADVOCACY WHILE PROMOTING
GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES RIGHTS AND BENEFITS FROM COLLECTIVE
BARGAINING. THE CURRENT CONTRACTS FOR
HAWAII’S PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS ARE SET TO EXPIRE AT THE END OF
JUNE. TALKS ARE NOW IN PROGRESS. ANY NEGOTIATED AGREEMENTS
REQUIRE EMPLOYEE RATIFICATION AND FUNDING BY THE COUNTY
COUNCILS AND STATE LEGISLATURE. JOINING US TONIGHT ARE LEADERS
FROM TWO PUBLIC WORKER UNIONS, THE STATE OF HAWAII
ORGANIZATION OF POLICE OFFICERS, SHOPO, AND THE
UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII PROFESSIONAL ASSEMBLY, UHPA,
WHICH REPRESENTS THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII AND
COMMUNITY COLLEGE FACULTIES. ALSO AT THE INSIGHTS TABLE IS A
LABOR LAW ATTORNEY TO HELP DEMYSTIFY THE COLLECTIVE
BARGAINING PROCESS. WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR
PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT’S SHOW. E-MAIL, CALL OR TWEET YOUR
QUESTIONS, AND WE’LL HAVE A LIVE STREAM OF THIS PROGRAM AT
PBS HAWAII. ORG. NOW TO OUR GUESTS. THIS IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE
STATE OF HAWAII ORGANIZATION OF POLICE OFFICERS, OR SHOPO. HE WAS BORN AND RAISED IN
HONOLULU IN BOTH NAKATON I AND MAYOR WRIGHT HOUSING. HE STARTED WITH THE HONOLULU
POLICE DEPARTMENT AS AN OFFICER IN 1989 AND IS STILL SERVING IN
THAT CAPACITY TODAY. CHRISTINE IS EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR OF THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII PROFESSIONAL ASSEMBLY
OR UHPA, WHICH REPRESENTS THE FACULTY OF THE UH SYSTEM. SHE HAS MORE THAN 35 YEARS OF
LEADERSHIP EXPERIENCE WITH PUBLIC UNIONS AND POLITICAL
AFFAIRS, INCLUDING 12 YEARS WITH THE NATIONAL EDUCATION
ASSOCIATION. AND ANNA IS PRESIDENT OF ESNA
LAW FIRM THAT PROVIDES LITIGATION AND TRANSACTIONAL
SERVICES IN THE AREAS OF LABOR, EMPLOYMENT, EMPLOYEE BENEFITS,
GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS AND PUBLIC BENEFITS. WE ALSO INVITED
REPRESENTATIVES FROM OTHER PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS,
INCLUDING THE HAWAII STATE TEACHERS ASSOCIATION, HAWAII
FIREFIGHTERS ASSOCIATION AND OTHERS. THEY WERE EITHER UNABLE TO
INTRODUCE A REPRESENTATIVE OR DECLINED TO RESPOND. THIS IS A BUSY TIME. EVERYBODY IS IN IT NEGOTIATION. LET ME BEGIN WITH YOU. YOU’RE PRIMARILY A MANAGEMENT
ATTORNEY. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
PUBLIC UNIONS AND PRIVATE UNIONS JUST TO GIVE OUR
AUDIENCE A SENSE OF WHAT WE’RE FOCUSING ON HERE WITH THE
PUBLIC UNIONS IN.>>THE LAW IS DIFFERENT. IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, THE
PRIMARY STATUTE IS THE NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS ACT. IT WAS PUT INTO PLACE IN THE
1930’S, AND THEN THE COUNTERPART IS THE RAILWAY
LABOR ACT, AND IT HAS A WHOLE BODY OF REGULATIONS THAT
GOVERNOR IT, AND A VERY ROBUST ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURE, AND
OFFICES THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. IN HAWAII, STATE PUBLIC
EMPLOYEE UNIONS ARE GOVERNORRED BY STATE LAW, WHICH
IS THE HAWAII PUBLIC EMPLOYEE RELATIONS ACT. IT’S MODELED KIND OF LIKE THE
FEDERAL LAW, BUT VERY DIFFERENT. IT HAS ITS OWN ADMINISTRATIVE
AGENCIES, ITS OWN CASE LAW, AND IT HAS DIFFERENT THINGS THAT
THEY PERMIT UNDER STATE LAW THAT THEY DON’T UNDER FEDERAL. SO TWO DIFFERENT BODIES OF LAW,
ALTHOUGH I GUESS THE OVERALL PRINCIPLE, MANAGEMENT, LABOR,
AND THEN YOU NEGOTIATE AND REPRESENT YOUR RESPECTIVE
PARTIES.>>KRISTEEN HANSELMAN, IN TERMS
OF THE PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNIONS, WHAT’S THE SITUATION IN HAWAII? YOU WERE MENTIONING EARLIER
WHEN WE WERE TALKING, IT’S VERY DIFFERENT FROM OTHER PLACES. WHAT MAKES HAWAII UNIQUE WHEN
IT COMES TO ITS PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNIONS?>>WELL, THERE’S REALLY SORT OF
THREE THINGS THAT HAPPEN HERE, WHICH ARE REALLY QUITE
DIFFERENT FROM THE PUBLIC SECTOR ON THE MAINLAND. ONE IS THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH
MULTIPLE PARTIES TO A BARGAINING TABLE. SO IT’S NOT JUST LIKE A SCHOOL
DISTRICT AND THE UNION. HERE WE HAVE THE GOVERNOR AT THE
TABLE. WE HAVE THE UNIVERSITY OF
HAWAII AT THE TABLE. FOR OTHER UNIONS THEY’RE GOING
TO HAVE THE CITY AND COUNTIES AND STATE. SO THERE’S MULTIPARTY, AND
LURKING IN THE BACKGROUND, OF COURSE, IS THE LEGISLATURE,
WHICH IS A PARTY TO THE CONTRACT.>>>LURKING IN THE BACKGROUND
OR LOOKING FROM A CLOUD?>>WELL, EITHER WAY, DEPENDING
ON THE DAY. AND SO THEY’RE THE FUNDING. YOU HAVE THE GOVERNOR THAT MUST
PUT INTO PLAY THE MONEYS THAT ARE AGREED UPON THROUGH A
RATIFIED CONTRACT. YOU NEED THE LEGISLATURE TO
APPROVE THOSE MONEYS IN THE BUDGET DOCUMENT. SO YOU HAVE MULTIPLE PARTIES. YOU ALSO HAVE SOMETHING HERE
THAT I HAVE FOUND FASCINATING, WHICH IS THE INTENT OF WHAT
COLLECTIVE BARGAINING IS SUPPOSED TO DO HERE. AND THE PREAMBLE TO THE LAW
ITSELF TALKS ABOUT COLLECTIVE BARGAINING BEING FOR DISPUTE
RESOLUTION AND TO ENHANCE POLITICAL AND SOCIAL — THE
STORM ENVIRONMENT. AND WHEN WE’RE TALKING ABOUT
POLITICAL, THEY DON’T MEAN HEY, WHO ARE YOU ELECTING AND DID YOU
CONTRIBUTE TO ANY CANDIDATE. THEY’RE TALKING ABOUT GOOD
GOVERNMENT.>>LET ME GET BACK TO THAT. THAT’S AN INTERESTING POINT,
BUT LET’S MOVE THAT TO LATER IN THE SHOW AND TALK A LITTLE MORE
ABOUT NUTS AND BOLTS RIGHT NOW. FROM SHOPO, THIS EXAMPLE THAT
KRISTEEN OFFERED OF HAVING MULTIPLE PEOPLE THEY TABLE,
YOUR UNION REPRESENTS FOUR DIFFERENT COUNTIES WITH POLICE
OFFICERS, WITH FOUR DIFFERENT MAYORS AT THE TABLE PLUS THE
GOVERNOR AT THE TABLE, RIGHT? WHAT’S THAT LIKE?>>FIRST I JUST WANT TO THANK
YOU AND PBS MANAGEMENT AND STAFF FOR AFFORDING US THIS
PLATFORM ALONG WITH MY COHORTS KRIS AND ANNA. THIS IS A GREAT TIME FOR US TO
GIVE INSIGHT AS TO WHAT THE HAWAII LABOR ORGANIZATION IS
ABOUT, AND OUR EXPERIENCE WITH OTHER HISTORY RELATED TO LABOR
ORGANIZATIONS AND AGAIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH. TO YOUR QUESTION, IT CAN BE VERY
CHALLENGING. YOU MENTIONED THE HR DIRECTIVE
AS WELL FROM EACH OF FOUR COUNTIES THAT WE HAVE TO
NEGOTIATE WITH AND SIT ACROSS THE TABLE FROM, AND NOTHING
WILL SIMPLIFY OR MAKE IT ANY LESS CONFLICT, BUT IT IS
SIMPLE. YOU CAN UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER’S
ROLES AND TRULY, STAND FOR THE GREATER GOOD. SO WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT
THE EMPLOYERS ARE FACING, ECONOMIC CHALLENGES, FINANCES,
AND THE LIKE. AND WE CAN ONLY HOPE THEY
UNDERSTAND WHAT WE’RE UP AGAINST, AND IT’S OUR DUTY AS A
LABOR ORGANIZATION TO REPRESENT WHAT OUR CONCERNS AND
CHALLENGES ARE FOR POLICE OFFICERS ACROSS THE FOUR
COUNTIES. SO IT’S CHALLENGING AT TIMES
BUT AT THE END WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE WE CAN ONLY HOPE THAT
COLLECTIVELY WE’RE WORKING TOGETHER FOR THE GREATER GOOD.>>AND HAWAII IS UNIQUE AS YOU
MENTIONED. WE HAVE OUR SPECIFIC HAWAII LAW
AND I KNOW A LOT OF THE PUBLIC WORKER UNION RIGHTS ARE
ACTUALLY IN OUR STATE CONSTITUTION AS OPPOSED TO IN
OTHER STATUTES.>>RIGHT.>>>SO HOW MUCH OF POWER BALANCE
DO THE PUBLIC WORKER UNIONS HAVE HERE COMPARED TO WHAT THEY
MIGHT HAVE IN ANOTHER STATE? DO THEY HAVE MORE CLOUT HERE
THAN OTHER PLACES IN TERMS OF THEIR ABILITY TO GO TO THE TABLE
WITH MORE STRENGTH?>>I THINK THE WAY I CAN ANSWER
IS, I HAVE COLLEAGUES ON THE MAINLAND WHO OCCASIONALLY COME
HERE TO DO COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AND THEY’RE ALWAYS
AMAZED HOW DIFFERENT IT IS, AND I DON’T KNOW IF IT’S BECAUSE OF
HAWAII’S CULTURE AND THE WAY WE RELATE, OR THE FACT THAT WE’RE
JUST GEOGRAPHICALLY ISOLATED AND EVERYBODY IS ON THE ISLAND. AND SO, YOU KNOW, IT’S NOT LIKE
YOU CAN GO AND BUSH THE PLACE DOWN. YOU’RE BURNING YOUR
NEIGHBORHOOD. SO PEOPLE TEND TO BE A LITTLE
BIT MORE EASYGOING. BUT BY THE SAME TOKEN, YOU MIGHT
BE HERE IN NEGOTIATIONS BUT THEN YOU GO IN TO A POLITICAL
CAMPAIGN SEASON AND EVERYBODY IS LOOKING FOR ENDORSEMENT, SO
THAT CLOSE TIE THAT YOU SEE BETWEEN THE UNIONS AS WELL AS
THE POLITICAL PARTIES AND THE COMMUNITY, IS THERE, BUT I
THINK IT’S MORE PRONOUNCED BECAUSE IT’S A SMALL PLACE.>>>THAT’S AN INTERESTING POINT
AND I’LL GO TO KRISTEEN ON THIS. UHPA HISTORICALLY HAD ITS SOLID
FRIENDS. NEIL ABERCROMBIE WAS A SOMEBODY
OF UHPA FOR MANY YEARS. HE WAS VERY CLOSE TO THE PEOPLE
WHO WERE THE NEGOTIATORS FOR UHPA. UHPA WAS THE FIRST UNION HE
NEGOTIATED WITH, AS I RECALL, CORRECT ME IF I’M WRONG, BUT
THAT WAS WHAT IT SEEMED LIKE. HOW DO YOU AS A UNION TRY AND
CULTIVATE THESE KINDS OF POLITICAL STRENGTHS? DOES THAT MILK A BIG DIFFERENCE
WHEN IT COMES TO NEGOTIATION, KNOWING THAT THERE’S A
POLITICIAN THAT’S GOING TO BACK YOU UP IF IT COMES TIME TO DO
THAT?>>IT IS IMPORTANT, BUT THE
ISSUE IS CAN YOU ESTABLISH AND MAINTAIN A RELATIONSHIP. IT’S REALLY NOT THE ISSUE OF ARE
YOU GIVING A CONTRIBUTION. IT’S REALLY ARE YOU COMMITTED. WE HAVE ONE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM,
AND WE HAVE CAMPUSES ON EVERY ISLAND. AND SO THE DEGREE TO WHICH WE,
FACULTY MEMBERS, HAVE A PRESENCE IN EVERY COMMUNITY,
EVERY COMMUNITY ALSO HAS A LEGISLATURE, AND HAS A
LEGISLATIVE REPRESENTATIVE IN THAT COMMUNITY. AND SO IT MAKES SENSE THAT WE
ARE SO TIED TO THE STUDENTS AND THE VARIOUS FAMILIES, WHERE WE
LIVE, IS OFTENTIMES THE SAME PLACE WHERE WE WORK, AND IT IS
BECAUSE WE ARE AN ISLAND STATE.>>YOU’VE HAD TO THROW THAT
SWITCH A COUPLE OF TIMES. I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS AT UH, WE
MARCHED ON THE CAPITOL. I DON’T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHY,
MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOMETHING TO DO WITH SALARIES, YOU, BUT EVERY
ONCE IN A WHILE HAVE YOU TO CALL ON IT.
IS IT AS EASY AS IT WAS 20 YEARS AGO OR 40 YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS
IN SCHOOL?>>IT’S NOT, BUT PART OF THAT IS
THE TIME WE’RE IN, AND WE ARE UNDERGOING AT THE UNIVERSITY,
IN OUR BARGAINING UNIT, WE ARE AT A GENERATIONAL CHANGE. AND WHAT’S HAPPENING IS THAT WE
HAVE MANY MORE FACULTY THAT HAVE NO EXPERIENCES WITH
UNIONS, AND WE HAVE MANY FACULTY WHO ARE NOT HOMEGROWN. WE HAVE AN INTERNATIONAL AND
NATIONAL LABOR MARKET FOR A LOT OF OUR FACULTY. AND SO THE ENVIRONMENT IS
COMPETITIVE. THEY DO NOT NECESSARILY COME
OUT OF A UNION BACKGROUND, AND WE REALLY HAVE TO REDIRECT OUR
COMMUNICATIONS TO THEM IN A WAY THAT HELPS THEM UNDERSTAND WHAT
THE DYNAMICS ARE HERE IN THE WORKPLACE.>>AGAIN, SAME QUESTION TO YOU. SHOPO HAS BEEN KNOWN FOR MAKING
COMMERCIALS AND BEING ON TELEVISION AND HAVING FRIENDS
IN THE LEGISLATURE WHEN YOU NEEDED THEM. HOW DOES THAT HELP YOU, THOUGH,
IN BARGAINING TIME? DOES THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE?>>IT DOES AND IT DOESN’T PER
SAY. WHEN WE GOT IN, WHEN I FIRST GOT
ELECTED IN 2001, SHOPO WAS STRICTLY DEMOCRAT. AND I’VE LEARNED REAL QUICKLY
THAT WE’RE NOT FRIENDS — WE’VE GOT FRIENDS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE
AISLE, IF YOU WILL. IT’S ALWAYS BEEN OUR POSITION,
THAT’S WHY WE’VE NEVER ENDORSED JUST ONE PARTY. WE ENDORSE THE CANDIDATE. WE WANT TO KNOW THE CANDIDATE’S
IDEOLOGY, HIS OR HER HEART FOR THE PEOPLE OF HAWAII, AND A
LITTLE BIT OF WHY WE’RE DIFFERENT FROM THE MAINLAND. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THE ALOHA
SPIRIT IS ALIVE AND WELL. DURING NEGOTIATIONS, WHETHER
PATROLLING THE STREETS OR ADDRESSING A VOLATILE
SITUATION, ALOHA SPIRIT WILL ALWAYS COME THROUGH IN THE END. SO SPECIFICALLY TO YOUR POINT,
THAT’S WHY WE’VE NEVER ENDORSED ONE PARTY. WE’VE TRULY ENDORSED THE
CANDIDATE AND WHAT THE CANDIDATE REPRESENTS, AND WE DO
HAVE AN OPEN DOOR POLICY. WE DON’T GO KNOCKING ON
POLITICIANS’ DOORS DURING ELECTION SEASON. WE HAVE AN OPEN DOOR POLICY,
COME IN, SIT DOWN, TALK STORY, TELL US WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE
ABOUT POLICE OFFICERS WHO ARE TASKED TO PUT THEIR LIVES ON THE
LINE FOR THE PEOPLE OF HAWAII AND OUR VISITORS. SO YES AND NO. SO YES, IN THE CONTEXT OF WITH
THE GOVERNOR CARRYING FOUR VOTES AND EACH MAYOR CARRYING
ONE VOTE, WE HAVE TO RESPECT THEM BOTH. AND I SAID EARLIER, IT’S
IMPORTANT THAT WE, AS LABOR LEADERS, WE NEED TO REMEMBER
THAT IT’S NOT ABOUT ME, THE PRESIDENT. IT’S ABOUT THE 2,000 OFFICERS
AND THEIR FAMILIES THAT I’M REPRESENTING. SO I NEED TO BE IN THEIR BEST
INTERESTS. THE FOURTH ONE, UNDERSTANDING
WHAT THE GOVERNMENT IS UP AGAINST, UNDERSTANDING WHAT
THE FOUR MAYORS ARE UP AGAINST, UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE FOUR
POLICE CHIEFS ARE UP AGAINST, AND AGAIN, IT HELPS ME TO
ADVOCATE FOR MY MEMBERS BECAUSE I’M STILL SERVING AS A POLICE
OFFICER. SO NOT ONLY DO I HEAR ABOUT THE
PROBLEMS THAT THEY FACE, BUT I SEE IT AND I LIVE IT. SO I KNOW THE CHALLENGES THAT
THEY FACE.>>A LITTLE BIT MORE FROM THE
OUTSIDE, BUT YOU’RE IN THIS COMMUNITY. YOU KNOW THE INSIDE IN THAT
SENSE. CERTAINLY, DOES THIS
RELATIONSHIP, THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII SAYING WE STAND FOR
HIGHER EDUCATION, THE POLICE, SHOPO SAYING WE STAND FOR LAW
AND ORDER AND POLICE OFFICERS, HSTA SAYS WE STAND UP FOR
TEACHERS, THESE GROUPS OF PEOPLE WHOM PEOPLE HAVE GREAT
ESTEEM FOR, DO YOU SEE THAT PLAYING OUT IN NEGOTIATIONS,
THAT MAYBE THE GOVERNMENT IS AFRAID TO, FOR LACK OF A BETTER
WORD, ANGER THE TEACHERS OR AFRAID TO ANGER THE POLICE OR
AFRAID TO ANGER THE UNIVERSITY?>>I DON’T KNOW IF PEOPLE THINK
ABOUT THAT. I THINK WHEN THEY GO INTO
NEGOTIATIONS, EVERYONE THOSE, THEY CENTER A VERY DIFFICULT
JOB. AND IT IS A PROCESS, AND THE
NEGOTIATORS ON BOTH SIDES KNOW THAT THEIR LEGAL DUTY, LEGAL
DUTY, IS TO REPRESENT THEIR HALF OF THE TABLE. AND WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS GO
BACK AND FORT IN THIS PROCESS TO COME TO SOME KIND OF AGREEMENT,
AND I THINK WHAT MAKES IT DIFFICULT IS THE WORLD IS
GETTING MUCH MORE COMPLICATED. THERE’S ECONOMIC ISSUES. THERE’S COMPETITIVE ISSUES. THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF THINGS
THAT ARE SHAMING IT, AND YOU HAVE THESE PEOPLE, LIFE USED TO
BE SIMPLE BACK IN THE 50S AND 60’S. IT’S NOT LIKE THAT NOW.
AND IT MAKES IT EVEN MORE COMPLICATED WHEN BOTH THE
EMPLOYEES HAVE FOUR GENERATIONS IN THE WORKPLACE,
SO YOU WERE SAYING PEOPLE ARE VERY DIFFERENT AND THEY FORGET,
IT’S BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE FOUR DIFFERENT GENERATIONS IN
YOUR BARGAINING UNIT, AND THEY DON’T THINK THE SAME. THEY DON’T UNDERSTAND THE
ISSUES THE SAME. SO THE POOR NEGOTIATERS HAVE TO
GET THEIR SIDE TOGETHER.>>>KRISTEEN HANSELLMAN FROM
UHPA, ON THE EMPLOYEES’ SIDE, WHO’S IN YOUR EAR? WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE ARE TELLING
OAHU THEY WANT? HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT TO
NEGOTIATE WHEN YOU’VE GOT THIS KIND OF VARIETY OF INTERESTS IN
YOUR UNION?>>WELL, WE HAVE SORT OF — OUR
BARBELL HAS BEEN CHANGING. WE USED TO HAVE A NUMBER OF
PEOPLE CLOSE TO RETIREMENT, AND WE THEN STARTED HAVEING NEW
HIRES. SO RIGHT NOW WE ARE IN REALLY
INTERESTING DYNAMIC WHERE WE HAVE ABOUT 50% OF OUR
BARGAINING UNIT THAT WE WOULD CALL MOBILE, WHICH MEANS THEY
HAVE THE ABILITY TO LEAVE. AND SO SOME OF THOSE ARE PEOPLE
WHO ALREADY QUALIFY FOR FULL RETIREMENT, FULL SOCIAL
SECURITY, FULL ERS, AND THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY YOU
KNOW, WHAT IT’S TIME FOR ME TO LEAVE, AND I’M GOING TO OREGON. WE HAVE ANOTHER 35% THAT ARE
YOUNG, THEY MAY BE PROBATIONARY EMPLOYEES, 35% OF OUR
BARGAINING UNIT IS NOW UNDER AGE 40, AND THAT MEANS THAT THEY
HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY HEY, IF MY WORKING CONDITIONS OR I’M
HAVING A HARD TIME BUYING A HOUSE HERE, IT’S HARD FOR ME TO
START A FAMILY, THEY HAVE MOBILITY. AND WHAT’S GOING ON IS WE HAVE
A NUMBER OF OTHER STATES AND INTERNATIONAL IN OUR HIGHLY
COMPETITIVE FIELDS. THEY’RE GETTING VERY
ATTRACTIVE JOB OFFERS.>>YOU KNOW, THIS IS A PERPETUAL
ISSUE WITH POLICE OFFICERS TOO.>>RIGHT, ABSOLUTELY, AND
THAT’S WHY WE’VE COME A LONG WAY SINCE 2001, LIKE I SAID BEFORE
THE SHOW STARTED. WHAT INSPIRED ME IN MANY
OFFICERS TODAY IN THAT CONTRACT, WE NETTED 3% OVER A
FOUR YEAR PERIOD, SO WE SAID MAN, THIS IS NOT ENOUGH. IT WAS A FOUR YEAR CONTRACT. IT WAS 0, 0, 1 AND 2%.>>>DIDN’T ALL PUBLIC EMPLOYEES
GET THAT SAME AMOUNT THAT YEAR?>>NO, NO. AT THAT TIME THAT WAS ONE OF THE
MOST HEALTHY ECONOMIC TIMES FOR HAWAII, AND MORE SO, THIS
CANNOT BE. SO TODAY, 10 YEARS AGO WE HAD A
HUGE MASS EXODUS OF OFFICERS FROM HAWAII GO TO THE MAINLAND,
MAJOR THE NORTHWEST. TODAY WE HAVE MANY OF THOSE
OFFICERS COMING BACK HOME, AND WE DO HAVE MANY FROM OTHER PARTS
OF THE UNITED STATES THAT WILL COMING HERE TO HAWAII, AND MORE
IMPORTANTLY OUR HOMEGROWN OFFICERS ARE STAYING HOME AND
LIKE I SAID, WE’VE COME A LONG WAY.>>>WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE?>>BETTER PAY. THEIR PENSIONS AND THE BENEFITS
ARE MUCH BETTER THAN THE MAINLAND. THE MAINLAND, YOU MIGHT GET
PAID HIGH UP FRONT AS FAR AS SALARIES AND WAGES BUT WHEN YOU
RETIRE THERE’S NO BENEFIT WAITING FOR YOU AND THE FAMILY. SO IT KIND OF BALANCES OUT, BUT
TODAY, WITHIN THE LAST EIGHT YEARS OR SO, WE’VE CAUGHT UP AS
FAR AS PAY SCALES ARE CONCERNED. IF I’M NOT MISTAKEN, I THINK OUR
OFFICERS WERE IN THE TOP 10 OF THE UNITED STATES AS FAR AS
SALARIES ARE CONCERNED. PRIOR TO US — WITH ALL RESPECT
TO OUR PREVIOUS FOREFATHERS OF OUR UNION, WE WERE NEVER IN THE
BALLPARK.>>YOU KNOW WHAT’S INTERESTING
ABOUT THAT IS THAT WE ALWAYS HEARD — AND I DON’T KNOW HOW
OLD THIS THINKING IS — THAT HAWAII PUBLIC EMPLOYEES MIGHT
NOT BE PAID AS MUCH AS THEIR PRIVATE SECTOR COUNTERPARTS. I KNOW, KRISTEEN, YOU’VE HEARD
THIS. BUT THE BENEFIT STRUCTURE,
PARTICULARLY AT RETIREMENT, THE AMOUNT OF DAYS OFF AND THOSE
THINGS, WERE MUCH MORE GENEROUS. IS THAT STILL THE CASE NOW? I KNOW YOU MAY NOT BE AN EXPERT,
BUT FROM WHAT IT HE’S SAYING, ARE THE SALARIES CATCHING UP,
OR — DOES THAT WORK? I KNOW IT’S A LITTLE BIT OF A
LONG QUESTION, BUT THIS DYNAMIC OF I’M NOT OFFERING YOU VERY
MUCH MONEY IN SALARY BUT BOY, IN 30 YEARS YOU’RE GOING TO BE IN
GREAT SHAPE, DOES THAT WORK IN THIS DAY AND AGE IN TERMS OF
WHEN YOU’VE GOT A YOUNG WORK FORCE AND THAT SORT OF THING?>>I THINK IT’S DIFFERENT. I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT STUDIES,
THE MILLENNIALS SUPPOSEDLY ARE MOTIVATED NOT NECESSARILY BY
JUST MONEY. THEY’RE LOOKING FOR A CAUSE,
FOR LIFESTYLE. THEY’RE LOOKING FOR
FLEXIBILITY. AND IF YOU THINK I DON’T GET IT
FROM YOU, I’LL JUST MOVE ON. I THINK, THOUGH, IN TERMS OF
WAGES AND BENEFITS, NOT JUST PUBLIC SECTOR, IT’S ALSO
PRIVATE, THE DAYS WHEN YOU COULD SAY THIS GROUP, PUBLIC
EMPLOYEES LEFT FOR THE PRIVATE SECTOR MORE, I THINK IT DEPENDS
NOW ON THE JOB CLASSIFICATION, BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME SEVERE
SHORTAGES IN CERTAIN AREAS. SO PUBLIC AND PRIVATE HAVE TO
PAY THE GOING RATE AND COMPETE WITH OTHER PLACES, AND IT’S NOT
JUST AMERICAN CITIES OR LOCATIONS. I MEAN, THERE ARE ASIAN
COUNTRIES THAT WANT DIFFERENT SKILLS, AND EUROPEANS, AND
THEY’LL PAY, SPECIAL PEOPLE WILL JUST GO TO WHERE THE JOBS
AND THE MONEY ARE.>>>KRISTEEN HANSELLMAN FROM
UHPA, THAT DYNAMIC I JUST DESCRIBED, HOW DOES IT PLAY OUT
WITH FACULTY?>>THE YOUNGER FACULTY ARE
CLEARLY NOT GETTING THE SAME LEVELS OF BENEFITS BECAUSE OF
CHANGES IN THE LAW, SO –>>IT’S BEEN BASICALLY TAKE
BACKS OVER THE YEARS.>>>THERE HAVE BEEN TAKE BACKS
AND THE PERCENTAGE OF CONTRIBUTIONS IS HIGHER FOR ERS
EMPLOYEES, SO THEY’RE SAYING THAT — AND THEY HAVE TO WAIT
LONGER. AND THE BENEFIT THEY WILL GET IS
A LESSER BENEFIT. NOT ONLY DO THEY HAVE TO WAIT
LONGER. IN HIGHER EDUCATION, MANY OF
THE INSTITUTIONS HAVE PORTABILITY OF THEIR PENSIONS
THROUGH TIAA-CREF, AND HERE ARE OUR FACULTY MEMBERS ARE PART OF
THE ERS, THE STATE SYSTEM.>>>YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN THAT A
LITTLE BIT MORE.>>>OK. IT MEANS THAT YOU HAVE A
PERSONAL PENSION AND IF YOU MOVE, LET’S SAY I’M A FACULTY
MEMBER, AND I’M COMING OUT OF THE UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON TO
HAWAII, I HAVE A NICE PENSION BUNDLE THAT STAYS WITH ME, IF I
COULD, I WOULD BRING IT HERE. UNFORTUNATELY, WE DON’T HAVE
THAT KIND OF PORTABILITY WITH OUR PENSIONS. HIGHER EDUCATION IS SOMEWHAT
UNIQUE IN THAT RESPECT, AND IT HAS BEEN A VERY GOOD SALES TOOL
FOR BEING ABLE TO ATTRACT FACULTY BECAUSE YOU DON’T LOSE
ANYTHING. YOU PACK UP YOUR PENSION AND YOU
TAKE IT TO ANOTHER INSTITUTION.>>BUT HERE YOU CAN’T DO THAT.>>HERE YOU CAN’T DO THAT.>>SO YOU START FROM SCRATCH.>>>YOU START FROM SCRATCH. WE HAVE EXPERIENCED FACULTY
THAT ARE HIRED HERE, AND THEY HAVE COME OUT OF A TIA-CREF
ENVIRONMENT WHERE THEY HAVE PORTABILITY, BUT THEY CAN’T
PORT HERE. SO THEY DO HAVE TO THEN START
OVER AT THE BASE, AND THAT’S A REAL DISINCENTIVE.>>>HOW TOUGH A SELL IS THAT? IF YOU COME TO THE BARGAINING
TABLE AND YOU SAY OH, WE NEED TO YOU IMPROVE OUR RETIREMENT
BENEFITS, IN THIS DAY AND AGE YOU’LL BE LAUGHED AWAY FROM THE
TABLE.>>>ACTUALLY WE DON’T HAVE THE
RIGHT TO NEGOTIATE THEM HERE.>>IT’S ALL SET IN THE LAW?>>IT’S ALL SET IN LAW AND
STATUTE. SO OUR ABILITY TO IMPACT THAT
AREA IS SOMEWHAT LIMITED, AND IT IS FOR ALL THE PUBLIC SECTOR
UNIONS.>>>FORGIVE ME FOR INTERRUPTING
AND PUTTING IN SOME OF MY OWN EXPERIENCE HERE. I REMEMBER UPW ONCE DID A
CONTRACT WHERE THEY SAID WE ARE WILLING TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT
LESS IN SALARY IF WE CAN HAVE THIS RETIREMENT BENEFIT
IMPROVED OR THIS HEALTH BENEFIT IMPROVED. YOU CAN’T DO THAT IN THE SYSTEM
NOW? OR SOMEHOW THE UNION LEADER AT
THAT TIME WAS ABLE TO HAVE THE CLOUT, GO TO THE LEGISLATURE
AND SAY PART OF MY DEAL IS YOU CHANGE THE LAW FOR MY PEOPLE?>>THAT WAS BEFORE MY TIME HERE.>>>SO IN HAWAII, AND I KNOW
THIS IS IMPORTANT TO POLICE OFFICERS, YOU GO TO THE TABLE
AND YOU CAN’T TALK ABOUT IT, YOU CAPTAIN GIVE AWAY SOMETHING ON
THE RETIREMENT SIDE OR GIVE AWAY SOMETHING ON SALARY AND
GET SOMETHING?>>THAT’S THE LEGISLATURE AND
THAT’S LAW, SO WHAT’S SET BY THE ERS, YOU HAVE TO AGAIN FOLLOW AS
A STATE. AND SAME THING WITH OUR HEALTH
BENEFITS, SAME THING.>>>IS THAT GOOD OR BAD TO YOU?>>IT’S GOOD IN A WAY.
AND AGAIN, WE CANNOT DISRESPECT OR CRITICIZE OR LAWMAKERS. WE RESPECT THEM FOR WHAT THEY
BELIEVE IS IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE PEOPLE OF
HAWAII AND THE STATE AS A WHOLE. AND YEAH, COULD OUR PENSION BE
BETTER? ABSOLUTELY. BUT AGAIN WE WANT TO BE FAIR
WITH EVERYONE, AGAIN UNDERSTANDING WHAT OUR
GOVERNMENT LEADERS, ESPECIALLY TODAY, WITH THE UNFUNDED
LIABILITY, WITH OUR PENSION, AND OUR HEALTH.>>>THAT’S WHAT I’M SAYING,
YOU’RE MAKING A LOT OF NOISE ABOUT THAT.>>>THAT MAY BE SOMETHING OUR
LAWMAKERS WANT TO ADDRESS, LESS OF AN EMPLOYEE SALARY AND
INVEST IN THE PENSION. BUT AGAIN WHAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT
HERE AND WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO OUR STATE LAWMAKERS, SHOPO SUED
THE STATE FOR RAIDING THE ERS. WE SUED THE STATE. THANKFULLY WE WERE SUCCESSFUL
THAT THE WITH JUDGE HAD STOPPED THEM FROM RAIDING THE POTENTIAL
FURTHER.>>>THEY HAD DONE IT FOR YEARS.>>ESS. SO AGAIN IT’S A COLLECTIVE
THING THAT EVERYBODY NEEDS TO BE RESPONSIBLE AND AGAIN
BEGINNING WITH OUR STATE LAWMAKERS.>>>HOW DIFFERENT IS THAT FROM
THE PRIVATE SECTOR?>>I THINK WHAT HAPPENED, AND I
DON’T KNOW THE DETAILS, BUT I THINK THE ERS IS SET UP VERY
SIMILAR TO A DEFINED BENEFIT.>>>YES.>>DEFINED BENEFIT PLAN IS ONE
WHERE UNDER THE TERMS OF THE AGREEMENT, YOU GET A SET AMOUNT
WHEN YOU RETIRE. BUT —
>>SOME PEOPLE CALL IT PENSION.>>RIGHT, AND THE RISK IS ON THE
EMPLOYER TO CORRECTLY INVEST AND TO FUND TO GUARANTEE THAT AT
THE END. THE PRIVATE SECTOR USED TO BE
LIKE THAT. THAT’S WHAT YOU CALLED THE
LEGACY PLANS. IN THE AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY, IN
THE AIRLINES, AND WHAT HAPPENED IS IT IS THE ECONOMY WENT UP AND
DOWN, AND WHAT HAPPENED IS IT BECAME COST PROHIBITIVE, SO A
LOT OF THE EMPLOYERS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR BASICALLY FROZE
THE BENEFITS IN THOSE PLANS, TERMINATED AND WENT TO A MORE
PORTABLE PLAN, KIND OF LIKE TIAA-CRIEFF, WHICH BASICALLY
IS WHAT YOU CALL A 401K OR DEFINED CONTRIBUTION WHERE THE
RISK IS ON THE EMPLOYEE IN TERMS OF PUT IN ENOUGH TO THE PLAN,
WITH OR WITHOUT MATCHING FROM THE EMPLOYER, SO THAT HAVE YOU
A SET AMOUNT. AND SO IT’S WHERE THE RISK OF
THE INVESTMENT GOES.>>SPEAKING OF WHO TAKES THE
RISK, A QUESTION FROM SOME OF OUR VIEWERS ARE BEGINNING TO
COME IN NOW. WHEN NEGOTIATING, DO ANY UNION
BARGAINING REPRESENTATIVES HAVE ANY INTEREST FOR THE
TAXPAYERS? OR ARE THEY OBLIGATED TO ONLY
WATCH OUT FOR THEIR MEMBERS? KRISTEEN, WANT TO TRY THAT ONE
FIRST?>>WELL, I THINK WHEN YOU
REPRESENT FACULTY, YOU REPRESENT A GROUP THAT IS VERY
DIVERSE IN THEIR RELATIONSHIPS TO THE COMMUNITIES, AND SO WHEN
WE’RE NEGOTIATING WHILE WE’RE DEALING CERTAINLY WITH A
VARIETY OF SALARIES AND A VARIETY OF ISSUES, PART OF OUR
BARGAINING UNIT IS ENGAGED IN IN FACT CREATING EMPLOYMENT
THEMSELVES. AND SO THERE’S A REALLY
INTERESTING DYNAMIC WHEN YOU HAVE FACULTY. AND WE HAVE SOME WHO WITH THEIR
GRANTS ARE ENGINES OF FUNDING IN THEIR COMMUNITY.>>I NEED YOU TO EXPLAIN THAT. SO SOME RESEARCHERS WHO BRINGS
IN A TON OF MONEY ENDS UP EMPLOYING A BUNCH OF PEOPLE.>>>YES.>>>SO THEY’RE BOTH AN EMPLOYEE
AND AN EMPLOYER?>>YES.>>>SO WHEN YOU’RE NEGOTIATING
FOR BOTH THE EMPLOYEE AND THE EMPLOYER IN THAT SITUATION?>>NO. I’M NEGOTIATING FOR THE FACULTY
MEMBER ONLY. AND MANY OF THOSE EMPLOYEES,
THEY ARE HIRED FOR THE TERM OF A GRANT OR A CONTRACT. THEY MAY PERFORM A VARIETY OF
DUTIES, DEPENDING ON THE GRANT OR THE CONTRACT, BUT THIS IS
PRETTY TYPICAL FOR A HIGHER EDUCATION PUBLIC INSTITUTION. WE HAVE CONTRACTS WHERE BY
THERE ARE A NUMBER OF SERVICES BEING PROVIDED IN THE
COMMUNITIES, WHETHER IT’S INVASIVE SPECIES, WHETHER IT IS
WATER MANAGEMENT ISSUES, WHETHER IT’S HEALTH CARE. SO THERE IS A DIFFERENT
SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN FACULTY, OFTENTIMES ANDS THE
TAXPAYERS IN THE COMMUNITIES WHERE THEY WORK. SO IT’S A PRETTY INTERESTING
ENVIRONMENT.>>>LET ME PUT THAT TO YOU,
THEN, SHOPO. IT’S A LITTLE BIT CLEARER IN
YOUR CASE. GO BACK TO THE QUESTION, DO YOU
HAVE AN INTEREST FOR THE TAXPAYERS OR ARE YOU ONLY
INTERESTED IN GETTING THE BEST YOU CAN FOR YOUR MEMBERS?>>WITHOUT SOUNDING
DISRESPECTFUL, LET ME SAY THAT WE’RE TAXPAYERS TOO. WE PAY TAXES. WE PAY TAXES. SO IN NEGOTIATION WHEN WE’RE AT
THE TABLE, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THAT’S EMPLOYER’S
RESPONSIBILITY, TO BRING THAT TO THE FOREFRONT.>>TO REPRESENT THE TAXPAYER.>>>TO REPRESENT, TO SAY WHY
THEY’RE NOT ABLE TO PAY WHAT WE’RE ASKING FOR, THE ABILITY
TO PAY. SO LIKE I SAID EARLIER, WE
ALWAYS NEGOTIATE, AND WE’LL CONTINUE TO DO SO, WE TOTALLY
RESPECT THE EMPLOYER’S SIDE. SO WE’VE DONE OUR HOMEWORK,
WE’RE READY AND WE HOPE THEY’RE READY AS WELL. SO FIRST AND FOREMOST,
ABSOLUTELY, WE’RE VERY CONCERND ABOUT TAXPAYERS AND
WITH THAT SAID, WE PAY TAXES TOO.>>>HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN YOU’RE
TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A POSITION TO TAKE WHAT’S AVAILABLE IN
TERMS OF THE AMOUNT OF TAX MONEY THAT IS REASONABLE TO ASK FOR?>>WE NEED TO KNOW THE ECONOMIC
FORECAST, NOT JUST FOR TODAY, BUT TWO, FOUR, SIX YEARS DOWN
THE LINE, AND OF COURSE WHAT’S HAPPENED IN THE PAST. OBVIOUSLY WE CAN’T GO BACK AND
GET MONEYS THERE, BUT LOOKING FORWARD, PAST EXPERIENCE WILL
GIVE US AN IDEA OF WHAT WE’RE LOOKING FOR, AND AGAIN WE’VE
GOT TO BE REAL. WE CANNOT BE, PARDON THE
EXPRESSION, BE GREEDY AND NOT CONSIDER WHAT THE EMPLOYER IS
UP AGAINST, BECAUSE AGAIN, LIKE I SAID EARLIER, IT’S SIMPLE,
FOR THE GREATER GOOD, FOR THEM, FOR US AND AGAIN FOR THE
COMMUNITY.>>>LET ME ASK: DO YOU THINK
THAT DYNAMIC PLAYS A BIG ROLE IN PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNIONS? DO YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE
LEGITIMATEY CONCERN ABOUT THE PUBLIC TAXPAYER?>>IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR? I THINK GENERALLY YES BUT I
THINK THE OTHER ISSUE THAT THEY HAVE, OR PROBLEM, IS THAT
AGAIN, COLLECTIVE BARGAINING IS A TWO SIDED TABLE. THE THIRD PARTY, THE TAXPAYERS
ARE WATCHING FROM THE OUTSIDE, SO THE MEETING IS FOR THE
EMPLOYER TO REPRESENT THE DEPARTMENT IN THE BRANCH OF
GOVERNMENT THEY HAVE, AND THEN THE OUTBOUND DOES THEIR
REPRESENTATION OF THE BARGAINING UNIT. SO IT GETS VERY NARROW ON THE
ISSUE.>>>I’LL JUST AND AGAIN,
ANOTHER QUESTION COMES, IN WHAT ARE SOME OF THE COMPLICATIONS
WHEN NEGOTIATING WITH A NON-PROFIT IT IS SUCH AS A
GOVERNMENT? I THINK THIS IS MORE ABOUT
HAVING A RESTRICTED FUNDING STREAM AS OPPOSED TO BEING ABLE
TO GO GET SOME STOCK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. MY QUESTION TO YOU, THOUGH, IS
UHPA’S HISTORY, I REMEMBER THERE HAVE BEEN GREAT CONTRACTS
WITH LOTS OF BIG RAISES AND THEN YEARS WITH VERY LITTLE. I MEAN, WHAT’S THE ART OF THAT
FROM THE UNION POINT OF VIEW, OF KNOWING WHEN THE IRON IS HOT?>>>YOU KNOW, IT GOES TO THE
ISSUE OF REVENUE AND WHERE YOUR FUNDING STREAMS COME FROM, AND
THE UNIVERSITY IS SORT OF A COMPLEX LITTLE UNIVERSE TO
ITSELF ABOUT FUNDING. SO WE HAVE MONEYS THAT COME FROM
TUITION. WE HAVE MONEYS THAT COME FROM
THE STATE. WE HAVE MONEYS, ABOUT $400
MILLION A YEAR THAT COME FROM GRANTS AND CONTRACTS. SO THERE IS A VARIETY OF FUNDING
STREAMS, AND SOMETIMES THOSE ARE VERY ROBUST AND SOMETIMES
THEY’RE NOT SO ROBUST. IN PREVIOUS YEARS, THERE HAS
BEEN THE OPPORTUNITY AT THE UNIVERSITY TO IN FACT
CONTRIBUTE MORE TO THE ECONOMIC WELL BEING AND TO THE SALARY
PACKAGES OF THE FACULTY. RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A MUCH TIGHTER
BUDGET CONSTRAINT, AND SO THE AMOUNT OF REVENUE THAT BECOMES
AVAILABLE FOR BARGAINING IS PRETTY FLAT RIGHT NOW.>>THAT EASY TO EXPLAIN TO YOUR
MEMBERS?>>YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY IT IS.
AND IT IS BECAUSE WE HAVE A NUMBER — WE’VE GOT, LET’S SEE,
ABOUT 3600 IN THE BARGAINING UNIT. WE HAVE PEOPLE IN OUR
BARGAINING UNIT THAT BRING IN THEIR OWN SALARY MONEYS THROUGH
GRANTS AND CONTRACTS, AND THAT’S AN ACCEPTABLE WAY THAT
PEOPLE CAN ALSO ENHANCE THEIR EARNINGS IS THROUGH GRANTS AND
CONTRACTS. SO IT’S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT
ENVIRONMENT. WE HAVE OTHER FACULTY WHERE
GRANTS AND CONTRACTS ARE NOT PLENTIFUL, HONOLULU, IN
ENGLISH AND SOME OF OUR AREAS. SO THEY ARE PRETTY WELL AWARE
THAT THERE IS GREAT DIFFERENCES IN HOW REVENUE IS CAPTURED AT A
UNIVERSITY, AND IT DEPENDS ON WHEN YOU CAN CAPTURE THE
REVENUE. SO IT DOES GO UP AND DOWN. IT’S LIKE THE ECONOMY. OUR REVENUE STREAM GOES UP WHEN
WE HAVE TREMENDOUS NUMBERS OF STUDENTS RETURNING, WHICH MAY
BE COUNTER CYCLICAL TO OTHERS. WHEN THE ECONOMY IS DOWN, WE GET
A BUMP UP, WHICH HELPS OUR REVENUE.>>AN INTERESTING QUESTION THAT
COMES UP IS THE TACTICS OF — YOU DON’T HAVE ANYBODY
REPRESENTING THE EMPLOYER AT THE TABLE HERE TODAY, BUT THAT
WOULD BE THE GOVERNOR, PRIMARILY, IN THE STATE OF
HAWAII, FOR ALL, NOT JUST — THEY WORK FOR THE
COUNTIES, BUT THE GOVERNOR IS IN THE DRIVER’S SEAT, AND HE
MADE A LOT OF STATEMENTS DURING THIS LEGISLATURE ABOUT OH, I
PAID DOWN THE PENSION SYSTEM, SO IT MAKES IT LOOK LIKE HE’S
DOING SOMETHING NICE FOR THE PUBLIC WORKERS, BECAUSE HE’S
TRYING TO REDUCE THE UNEMPLOYMENT MANDATES IN THE
SYSTEM. THEN HE SAID OH, I SPENT THE
SURPLUS ON THE PENSION SYSTEM, BASICALLY. WHAT KIND OF CORNER HAS HE PUT
YOU IN IN TERMS OF WHAT TO EXPECT? I MEAN, WE HAD CITY OFFICIALS
TALKING ABOUT ONE PERCENT. I TOLD THIS STORY THE OTHER DAY. ONE PERCENT, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT
MORE. HOW REALISTIC IS IT FOR THEM TO
GET SOMETHING LIKE THAT?>>>WELL, THE BURDEN SON US AS
A LABOR ORGANIZATION. WE HAVE TO DO OUR HOMEWORK TO
PROVE OTHERWISE, AGAIN WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO GOVERNOR IGE,
AND YOU’RE RIGHT. ONE HAND, IT’S MADE DOWN AND ON
THE OTHER, IT’S GONE. SO IT’S OUR JOB. THE ENDURED ON US TO PROVE THAT
THE COUNTY AND STATE HAVE THE ABILITY TO PAY WHAT WE’RE
ASKING FOR. AND AGAIN WE’RE VERY REALISTIC. WE’RE NOT GOING TO ASK ANYTHING
THAT’S SILLY, IF YOU WILL. WE WANT TO GUILTY OUR CONTRACT
DONE AND GET GOING, NOT WASTE TIME. SO WE HAVE TO GET GOING.>>>YOU SEE THIS DYNAMIC WITH
THE EMPLOYER. I MEAN, YOU’VE BEEN WORKING FOR
EMPLOYERS THAT DID THE SAME THING OF THE IT’S A TERRIBLE
YEAR IN CONSTRUCTION, OR WHATEVER. ARE EMPLOYEES, HOW DO YOU
PERSUADE EMPLOYEES TO ACCEPT LESS AND BELIEVE THE EMPLOYER’S
STATEMENTS ABOUT THESE KIND OF THINGS?>>PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT STYLES
OF BARGAINING, JUST LIKE THEY CENTER DIFFERENT STYLES OF
LOBBYING, AND EVERYTHING ELSE. YOU CAN MAKE A SHOW, AND THE
OTHER SIDE WILL MAKE A SHOW, AND THEY’LL TAKE A LITTLE LONGER
BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY TALK ABOUT THE ISSUES. FOR ME, I THINK IT WORKS FASTER
IF YOU JUST SAY THIS IS MY REALITY AND THIS IS YOUR
REALITY ALSO, YOU’RE IN THE SAME COMPANY, YOU’RE IN THE
SAME ORGANIZATION, AND WE HAVE THESE ISSUES TO RESOLVE.>>THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT GOING
TO GO OUT OF BUSINESS, RIGHT?>>WELL, IT WON’T GO OUT OF
BUSINESS, BUT YOU CAN’T KEEP TAXING EVERYBODY BECAUSE
EVENTUALLY PEOPLE DO MOVE AWAY. AND OTHER PEOPLE RETIRE. I MEAN, ONE OF MY BIG ISSUES IS
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE AT THE STATE RETIRE? WE DON’T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO
REPLACE. AND THAT’S GOING TO BE A HUGE
PROBLEM. SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT
EVERYBODY, WHETHER YOU’RE ON THE UNION SIDE OR IN
MANAGEMENT, IT’S A PROBLEM IN THE STATE, AND THE KINDS OF
SKILLS THAT WE NEED, WE WEREN’T ATTRACTING THOSE PEOPLE, OR IF
YOU ATTRACT THEM IT’S HARD TO RETAIN BECAUSE WE GET OUTBID BY
OTHER PLACES, AND THAT’S A COMMUNITY PROBLEM. THAT’S A STATE PROBLEM.>>THIS IS POINTED DIRECTLY AT
SHOPO BUT IT GOES TO THE QUESTION OF THE NON MONETARY
BENEFITS. IT’S MORE THAN PAY. SHOPO IT COLLECTIVE BARGAINING
ALLOWS A VARIETY OF APPEALS, DISCIPLINE ISSUES, BUT ALLOWED
OFFICERS CHARGED WITH SERIOUS CRIMES TO STAY ON DUTY. WHY SHOULD WE SUPPORT THAT? YOU WANT TO ANSWER THAT
DIRECTLY, YOU CAN, BUT THE WAY I WOULD PHRASE THAT QUESTION
IS, HOW MUCH OF YOUR NEGOTIATION IS ABOUT STUFF LIKE
THAT, AS OPPOSED TO MONEY AND BENEFITS?>>OK, GREAT QUESTION. FIRST OFF, SHOPO DOES NOT
REPRESENT IN CRIMINAL OR CIVIL CASES, STRICTLY ADMINISTRATIVE
DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS. THAT’S SHOPO. THAT’S ALL WE DO. AS FAR AS WHAT WE NEGOTIATE AND
AS FAR AS THE ISSUE, LET ME BE CLEAR, WE SUPPORTED IT. WE PAR TOOK IN FASHIONS POLICY,
AND NOW THE LEADERSHIP OF OUR CHIEF HAS IMPLEMENTED IT. THE OTHER COUNTIES, FIRST AND
FOREMOST HAWAII AND KAUAI, MAUI COUNTY, GO THROUGH A PILOT
PROGRAM CAMERA. WE DON’T CHALLENGE IT. WE WELCOME THE CAMERA. HONOLULU HAS JUST RELEASED
THEIR POLICY, AND THEY STARTED A PILOT PROGRAM AS WELL. WHAT WE’RE NEGOTIATING IS WITH
THAT CAMERA, IT’S NOT WHAT WE BELIEVE IS A NEGOTIATABLE ITEM
BECAUSE IT AFFECTS THE IT OFFICERS’ WORK CONDITIONS. THE OFFICER WILL GET
DISCIPLINED IF HE OR SHE DOES NOT TURN THE CAMERA ON WHEN
THEY’RE SUPPOSED TO, IF THEY DON’T SUBMIT THE EVIDENCE WHEN
THEY’RE SUPPOSED TO. SO TECHNOLOGY NOW IS A GREAT
THING BUT ALSO YOU’VE GOT TO REMEMBER, YOU STILL NEED A
HUMAN BEING TO ACTIVATE IT IS SUCH AN EQUIPMENT. THINGS LIKE VACATION, SICK
LEAVE, THOSE ARE ALL NEGOTIABLE ITEMS THAT WE NEGOTIATED ON
BEHALF OF OUR OFFICERS. SOMETHING YOU MENTIONED
EARLIER, THAT I THINK YOU’RE KIND OF ALLUDING TO, IF WE’RE AT
THE TABLE NEGOTIATING FOR POLICE OFFICERS, DO WE LOOK AND
COMPARE FIREFIGHTERS AND TEACHERS AND UHPA. WE DON’T.
UNLESS THEY POSE THE QUESTION, WE’LL ADJUST IT ACCORDINGLY,
BUT WE DON’T. WE GO STRICTLY AND NARROWLY
ABOUT WHAT WE’RE UP AGAINST AND WHAT WE DESERVE. WITH DON’T SAY OH, UH MANY A GOT
THIS, HSTA GOT THIS. WE DON’T DO THAT. WE’LL NEVER DO THAT.>>>BUT IF THERE IS X AMOUNT IN
THE PIE, AND I’LL BRING THIS BACK TO KRISTEEN, IF THERE ARE
PIECES OF THE PIE, YOU’RE ALL NEGOTIATING AT THE SAME TIME,
ISN’T THERE A TENDENCY TO LOOK OVER THE SHOULDER AND GO, THAT
GUY GOT THIS? THERE A TENDENCY TO SAY OK,
EVERYONE SHOULD GET ABOUT THE SAME IN ORDER TO SATISFY ALL
THESE VARIOUS UNIONS?>>I THINK IT DEPENDS ON A
COUPLE OF FACTORS. ONE OF THEM DOES RELATE TO THE
NOTION OF HOW MUCH DO CERTAIN BARGAINING UNITS BRING TO THE
TABLE, AND IN THAT RESPECT, THE FACULTY UNIT HAS A LITTLE BIT
DIFFERENT KIND OF POSITION BECAUSE WE DO HAVE PEOPLE
BRINGING MONEY INTO THE ECONOMY. SO WE DO HAVE ABOUT $400 MILLION
A YEAR THAT COMES IN THROUGH FACULTY EFFORTS, SO IT CHANGES
THE DIMENSION OF THE DISCUSSION. BUT I THINK —
>>LET ME DIRECT IT THIS WAY. SO PART OF THE UNIVERSITY’S
ABILITY IN A DOWN ECONOMY IS TO MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT WE’RE
HELPING THE ECONOMY.>>>YES.>>>JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT
CLEAR.>>>AND IT’S ALSO JOB CREATION,
AS I MENTIONED BEFORE. THERE IS DIFFERENCES, FOR
EXAMPLE, THAT RELATE TO THE MAKE-UP OF OUR BARGAINING UNIT,
AND IN ORDER FOR THE BARGAINING UNIT THAT I REPRESENT, IT IS
OFTENTIMES VERY CRITICAL THAT WE PAY ATTENTION TO WHERE THE
MONEY IS PLACED, AND WHETHER IT GOES TO YOUNGER EMPLOYEES THAT
HAVE JUST COME INTO THE FIELD, WHETHER IT GOES — WE HAVE
LARGE NUMBERS OF FACULTY MEMBERS THAT COME IN BETWEEN 54
AND 6,000 A YEAR. AND THOSE PEOPLE ARE THE ONES
THAT ARE YOUNG, AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE
MINIMUM SALARIES, AND SO WE MAY PLACE OUR MONEYS THERE BECAUSE
IT’S A WAY THAT WE CAN KEEP THEM, AND SO THAT THEY ARE NOT
EASILY — SO OUR COMPETITIVENESS IS OFTENTIMES
AS MUCH INTERNALLY WITHIN OUR OWN BARGAINING UNIT AS IT IS
TOWARDS ANY OTHER BARGAINING UNIT. WHAT I WOULD SAY IS I THINK ONE
OF THE MORE CHALLENGES FOR ALL OF THE UNIONS IS THE HEALTH
BENEFIT, THE EUTF, BEFORE UNION TRUST, AND THAT IS — IT IS A
VERY DIFFICULT ISSUE AND PART OF IT IS THE STRUCTURE AND PART
OF IT IS THE SYSTEM IS SET UP THAT IT’S NOT BASED ON
BENEFICIARIES. YOU HAVE THE EMPLOYERS, YOU
HAVE THE UNION, TRYING TO KNOCK HEADS ABOUT WHAT PLANS AND WHAT
RATES ARE GOING TO BE PROVIDED. NOW OTHER EMPLOYEES, NOT JUST
THOSE THAT ARE PART OF MY BARGAINING UNIT 7, THE LOWER
INCOME PEOPLE PAY A MUCH HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF THEIR SALARY, AND
SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS NOT COMPETITIVE AND HARMS
EMPLOYEES ACROSS ALL BARGAINING UNITS IS IN FACT THE
PERCENTAGE OF BENEFITS THAT OUR FOLKS PAY OUT OF POCKET. IT’S MUCH HIGHER.>>>THAT’S STATUTORY, THOUGH,
RIGHT?>>IT IS.>>THAT’S IN THE LAW.>>>IT’S IN THE LAW, BUT IT CUTS
ACROSS TO ALL OUR BARGAINING.>>HOW BIG A PROBLEM IS THAT FOR
YOU FOLKS THIS YEAR, THE HEALTH BENEFIT?>>WELL, ANY TIME IT GOES UP, IT
MAKES IT THAT MUCH TOUGHER.>>>HOW MUCH HAVE THEY GONE UP?>>I WANT TO SAY 5% FROM THE
LAST.>>>YEAH, AND WE DON’T HAVE THE
BENEFIT RATES THAT WILL BE GOING INTO EFFECT IN 2018. SO WHEN YOU GET A LOW SALARY
OFFER AND YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE BENEFITS ARE GOING TO BE,
YOU’RE LOOKING AT THEN MORE OUT OF POCKET POTENTIALLY FOR OUR
BARGAINING UNIT MEMBERS, AND THAT CAN HAPPEN TO ANY
BARGAINING UNIT.>>>LET ME GO TO A MORE
INDEPENDENT VIEW. WHEN YOU’VE GOT ALL OF THE
UNIONS THAT REPRESENT ALL OF YOUR EMPLOYEES NEGOTIATING AT
THE SAME TIME, IS THAT GOOD OR BAD FOR THE EMPLOYER OR THE
TAXPAYER? WHO HAS THE ADVANTAGE IN
SITUATIONS LIKE THAT?>>I WAS THINK BEING THAT WHEN
YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT IT. I WAS THINKING THE PRIVATE
SECTOR IS THE OPPOSITE WHERE YOU MIGHT HAVE — THE HOTEL
UNIONS, THERE’S LOCAL 5 IN WAIKIKI AND THEN HE’S GOT ALL
THESE DIFFERENT CHAINS, AND WHAT THEY DO IS THEY GO TO THE
DIFFERENT CHAINS AND YOU SAY I’LL SEE WHAT I CAN GET HERE AND
THEN EVERYBODY FALLS IN LINE. THAT’S THE STRATEGY. THEY SHOP.>>>AND ONE TIME, IT MAKES FOR
CRAZINESS TOWARD THE END OF A SESSION.>>>IN TERMS OF THE PRESENT, HOW
HAS THE LEVERAGE IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT? IS IT THE EMPLOYEES OR THE
EMPLOYER? AND IN FACT WE’VE GOT A QUESTION
RIGHT HERE. CORK TO THE LEGISLATIVE
SCHEDULE AND MULTIPLE UNITS BARGAINING NOW, AREN’T WE
RUNNING OUT OF TIME? WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THESE 11TH
HOUR NEGOTIATIONS WITH NO AGREEMENTS? STRIKE?>>I DON’T KNOW IF IT’S LEVERAGE
SO MUCH AS EVERYBODY GOES CRAZY. HOW CAN YOU GET IT ALL DONE ON
A DATE CERTAIN, WITHIN THE LINE-UP? YOU MUST GO 24 HOURS A DAY WITH
NO SLEEP.>>>UHPA, YOU HAVE A UNION THAT
CAN STRIKE.>>YES.
>>AND YOU HAVE A UNION THAT CAN’T STRIKE, SO YOU HAVE
DIFFERENT PROCESSES ALL HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME. LET ME JUST DIVIDE THAT
QUESTION UP. IF YOU ARE IN A UNION THAT CAN
STRIKE, FIRST YOU NEED PEOPLE WILLING TO STRIKE. CAN YOU GET UNIFIED BEHIND IT? HAVE YOU EVER HAD A FACULTY
STRIKE?>>YEAH. THERE WAS ONE IN 2001 THAT AROSE
OUT OF TWO YEARS OF BEING WITHOUT A COLLECTIVE
BARGAINING CONTRACT, AND IT AROSE OUT OF A GREAT DEAL OF
ANGER. I MEAN, ANGER MOTIVATES — AND
ANGER TOWARDS IN THIS CASE A GOVERNOR THAT WAS NOT
PARTICULARLY POPULAR WITH THE PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS.>>LINGLE?>>NO, I BELIEVE IT WAS GOVERNOR
CAYETANO. SO YOU HAD A SPARK.>>>I SHOULD HAVE REMEMBERED
ALL OF THIS, SORRY.>>>THERE WAS A SPARK THERE, AND
FOR FACULTY TO STRIKE, FOR ANY UNION TO STRIKE, IT’S REALLY A
TOUGH DECISION. AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE SORT OF
THAT THRESHOLD. YOU CAN NEVER GO OUT WITHOUT THE
MAJORITY OF THE UNIT BEING VERY COMMITTED TO THIS IS WHAT THEY
HAVE TO DO FOR THE WELL BEING OF THEIR FAMILIES, FOR THEIR
PROFESSION, AND WHAT THEY BELIEVE WILL BE IN OUR CASE FOR
THE STUDENTS AND THEIR COMMUNITIES. SO WE ARE STILL OBVIOUSLY IN
NEGOTIATIONS. WE GOT A PROPOSAL RATHER LATE. WE HAVE PROBABLY UNTIL ABOUT
NEXT WEDNESDAY.>>HOW RECENTLY DID YOU GET THE
PROPOSAL?>>TUESDAY.>>THE FIRST PROPOSAL?>>NO. WE HAD A PROPOSAL FROM
DECEMBER, WHICH WAS INADEQUATE, AND WE’VE HAD A
PROPOSAL ON TUESDAY THAT, WITHOUT GETTING INTO THE
DETAILS, IS ALSO INADEQUATE. AND SO —
>>YOU SAID IT WAS TWO DAYS AGO.>>YES.
>>AND YOU HAVE UNTIL WEDNESDAY.>>>NEXT WEEK.>>>AND SOMEHOW HAVE YOU TO
COMMUNICATE THIS WITH YOUR –>>WELL, WE DON’T HAVE A
SETTLEMENT. WE DON’T HAVE A TENTATIVE
AGREEMENT.>>>YOUR NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE
HAS GOT TO BE A LOT OF PEOPLE, RIGHT?>>MY TEAM IS THE UHPA TEAM,
ABOUT EIGHT PEOPLE. THE UH HAS THEIR TEAM, WHICH
THEIRS IS BIGGER THAN THE UHPA TEAM. EVERY CAMPUS IS REPRESENTED.>>SINCE WE’VE GOTTEN INTO AN
INTERESTING AREA HERE, IS THIS BRINKSMANSHIP ON THE PART OF
THE ADMINISTRATION? I MEAN, WHY —
>>I DON’T KNOW. REMEMBER, WE HAVE SORT OF — WE
HAVE A SPLIT PERTINENT HERE, WHICH IS WE HAVE UNIVERSITY OF
HAWAII WHERE WE CAN ONLY DEAL WITH NON COST ISSUES, OK, SO
THERE’S THIS WHOLE LANGUAGE AND WE SIT AROUND AND TALK —
>>OK. YOU’VE GOT THE IGE
ADMINISTRATION AND YOU’VE GOT THE UNIVERSITY ADMINISTRATION,
AND THE UNIVERSITY ADMINISTRATION CAN’T TALK
ABOUT MONEY.>>>THAT’S CORRECT. SO IT’S A RATHER SCHIZOPHRENIC
KIND OF ENVIRONMENT ON OCCASION, SO WHEN YOU TALK
ABOUT CHAOS.>>THE LOOK ON YOUR FACE.>>THIS IS CRAZY.>>I THINK IT’S DIFFERENT FOR
EACH OF THE UNIONS, THIS IS CRAZY BECAUSE I DID AT ONE POINT
REPRESENT AN EMPLOYER THAT HAD — WE HAD 10 UNITS, SEVEN
UNIONS, AND ALL NEGOTIATED TOGETHER. BUT WE WERE ABLE, WE WERE
TALKING ABOUT IT, AND I COLOR CODED EVERYBODY SO I COULD
REMEMBER WHO WAS WHO, BUT WHAT WE DID WAS EVERY UNIT,
PARTICULARLY ON ECONOMIC ISSUES FIRST, SOME IN A LOGICAL
FASHION, AND THEN THEY WOULD COMBINE FOR COORDINATED
BARGAINING ON ECONOMICS. BUT THEY WERE THE SAME, AT LEAST
ON THE ECONOMICS, AND I THINK IT SOUNDS HORRIBLE, BUT IT’S LIKE
IT’S ALL DIFFERENT FOR EVERY SINGLE UNIT AT THE STATE. EVEN IF YOU WANTED TO GET IT
ORLANDO, HOW WOULD YOU DO THAT?>>HOW ARE THINGS WITH YOU? I KNOW YOU CAN’T DO SPECIFICS,
ABOUT YOU ARE YOU IN THE SAME BOAT, DOING THINGS AT THE LAST
MINUTE?>>BY LAW, WE’RE NOT ALLOWED TO
STRIKE, BUT I’VE WORKED MANY STRIKE VOTES IN MY CAREER AS A
POLICE OFFICER, TO BE KNOWN, PRIOR TO BEING INVOLVED WITH
SHOPO, I USED TO BE ANGRY AT THE UNIONS BECAUSE THEY WERE
CREATING INCONVENIENCE FOR HOTEL GUESTS OR WHATEVER THE
CASE MAY BE. BUT TODAY I APPRECIATE AND
UNDERSTAND IT AND TOTALLY RESPECT WHAT THE UNIONS ARE
DOING IN REPRESENTING THE SMALL VOICE OF THE PEOPLE, THE VOICE
OF THE CONSTITUENTS. SO I CAN UNDERSTAND IT AND I
TOTALLY RESPECT IT.>>>BACK TO MY QUESTION. HAVE YOU GOT UP A LEGIT OFFER?>>NOT YET. NOT YET. SO WE HAVEN’T RUN UP THE COST
ITEMS YET. THERE ARE COST ITEMS WE’RE
IRONING OUT RIGHT NOW, ALTHOUGH WE’VE HANDED OVER PROPOSALS AND
COSTS OF ITEMS. SO WE HAVEN’T GOTTEN ANY
COUNTER PROPOSAL.>>BEFORE YOU HAVE A SPECIAL
SESSION OF THE LEGISLATURE TO DEAL WITH THAT.>>WE’LL SEE.>>>THERE THEY’RE A RISK OF
TIME, WHEN YOU CAN START, RESTRICTIONS, OR WHEN YOU CAN
START NEGOTIATING?>>IT’S TWO PARTIES, RIGHT, AND
THAT’S LIKE I SAID EARLIER, I DON’T WANT TO BE A HYPOCRITE TO
WHAT I SAID EARLIER. I UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY’RE UP
AGAINST. OF COURSE WITH UHPA —
>>THEY HAVEN’T FINISHED YESTERDAY. THEY JUST GOT ARBITRATORS,
RIGHT?>>THEY ALREADY SETTLED AND IN
FACT THEY NO ONED THEIR SETTLEMENT. IT WAS IN THE PAPERS TODAY, AND
I BELIEVE HGEA WAS ON THE TABLE AND SETTLED AS WELL. SO I DON’T KNOW WHERE THAT IS
COMING OUT.>>IT JUST CAME OUT HERE ON LIVE
TV.>>OH, DID IT?>>YOU JUST SAID IT.>>ALL RIGHT. I HAVEN’T HEARD IT YET.>>>WE DON’T WANT TO RUSH INTO
IT. WE COULD IMPOSE A DEADLINE, BUT
WE’VE DONE OUR RESEARCH. IF WE DO THAT, ARE WE
BENEFITTING OUR MEMBERS AT THE END OF THE DAY? GET IT DONE NOW. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU’RE UP
AGAINST. YOU HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF THESE
UNIONS THAT MOVE A LOT QUICKER THAN WE HAVE, SO WE’RE OK. WE’RE FINE WITH IT, AND WE’RE
ALWAYS APPLICABLE TO COMPROMISING.>>LET ME ASK THIS, THOUGH. IF INDEED WE WITH CONFIRM THAT
HGEA HAS SETTLED, THAT’S A BIG DOG IN THIS FIGHT, DOES THAT
USUALLY CREATE A DOMINO EFFECT WHEN ONE BIG UNION SETTLES THAT
THINGS CLICK ALONG, SETS A BENCHMARK?>>>I THINK THE SHEER — THIS
YEAR, WE DON’T KNOW. I CERTAINLY DON’T KNOW FROM MY
BARGAINING UNIT AND MY TEAM IS FILLED WITH WONDERMENT TOO
ABOUT WHAT DIRECTION MAY OCCUR WITHIN BASICALLY A KNIFE
DAYTIME PERIOD IN ORDER FOR THE LEGISLATURE TO TAKE AN ACT.
AND KEEP IN MIND FOR THE UNITS THAT CENTER STRIKING CAPACITY,
WE WILL TO HAVE A RATIFIED CONTRACT, WHICH MEANS ALL OF
THE MEMBERS OF THE BARGAINING UNIT HAVE TO VOTE ON IT BEFORE
THERE CAN BE AN APPROPRIATION. SO THE THREE OF US THAT HAVE
THAT, THAT CREATES SOME TIME BARRIERS THAT — A UNIT THAT IS
SUBJECT TO ARBITRATION DOES NOT HAVE. WE HAVE NOT SEEN THE HGEA
ARBITRATION AWARDS YET. I THINK THERE ARE SIX UNITS. WHETHER THEY WILL BE A PACE
SETTER OR NOT, I THINK IS REALLY UNCLEAR RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THEIR
UNITS HAVE THEIR OWN REQUEST DIVERSITY. IT THERE ARE SOME WITH SALARY
STEPS, SOME THAT HAVE STRAIGHT WAGES. SO THOSE HAVE AN IMPACT ON HOW
MUCH MONEY BECOMES AVAILABLE.>>NOW THAT YOU MENTION THIS,
I’M NOW REMEMBERING A LITTLE BIT MORE IS THAT YOU’VE GOT
HIDDEN WITHIN, THERE MIGHT BE A BIG NUMBER THAT’S ANNOUNCED. THERE MIGHT BE A BIG WAGE
NUMBER, BUT WITHIN THE STRUCTURE THERE’S ALSO HOW THAT
OFTEN YOU MOVE UP IN WAGE AND ALL THESE OTHER THINGS THAT GET
COMPUTE IN THE THERE.>>YES.>>SO AN INDIVIDUAL EMPLOYEE
MIGHT MAKE MORE OR LESS THAN THAT BIG NUMBER, AND AGAIN,
IT’S ABOUT THIS GROUP OF MY MEMBERS IS GETTING THIS AND
THIS GROUP IS GETTING THIS, AND IT’S REALLY COMPLICATED.>>AND EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID,
OTHER VARIABLES WITHIN THE NEGOTIATION OF THAT. YOU MIGHT SHE A ONE OR TWO
PERCENT INCREASE THAT MIGHT NOT BE A 2% INCREASE BECAUSE OTHER
BENEFITS LIKE OVERTIME, HOW MUCH YOU’RE GOING TO DO THAT,
FOR POLICE OFFICERS, UNIFORM AND EQUIPMENT, THAT ADDS TO IT
AS WELL. SO THAT’S WHY WE HAVE TO BE
MINDFUL, AND WE’RE NOT HOLDING ANYONE HOSTAGE, IF YOU WILL,
GET IT DONE NOW. YOU GOT TO UNDERSTAND THE
DYNAMICS.>>>WE’VE ONLY GOT ABOUT A
MINUTE AND A HALF LEFT AND I WANT TO THROW THIS OUT BECAUSE
YOU BROUGHT THIS UP EARLIER, SOME OF THE PREAMBLE TO OUR
NEGOTIATING IS THE GOOD OF THE PEOPLE AND THE GOOD OF THE
STATE. DOES THIS SYSTEM WORK? IS IT A GOOD SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE
HERE IN THE STATE OF HAWAII? ARE WE BETTER OFF THAN MOST
PLACES OR WORSE OFF BECAUSE OF PUBLIC UNIONS?>>I THINK THERE ARE SOME THINGS
THAT CAN HELP BOTH EMPLOYERS AND THE PUBLIC AND THE UNIONS
HERE, AND THAT IS THAT THERE IS AN EXPECTATION THAT THE
PARTIES, EVEN WHEN THEY REASONABLE NEGOTIATING, HAVE
TO TALK ABOUT IMPORTANT ISSUES IN THE WORKPLACE ON AN ONGOING
BASIS. AND THAT IS A RATHER UNUSUAL
PART OF THE LAW HERE, THAT SHOULD BE BUILDING WHAT IS THE
PART THAT SAYS WE WANT — OUR BILL IS BASED ON BUILDING
RELATIONSHIPS. AND IT’S A VERY UNUSUAL
PREAMBLE.>>REALLY QUICKLY, DO YOU FEEL
LIKE IT WORKS WELL?>>I BELIEVE SO. I THINK WE’LL NEVER FIND A
PERFECT SYSTEM. AS LONG AS YOU’VE GOT GOOD
PEOPLE WITH GOOD HEARTS THAT CONSIDER THE BEST IS INTERESTS
OF BOTH PARTIES, AND THE COMMUNITY, WHAT’S BEST FOR THE
PEOPLE OF HAWAII AND VISITORS TO HAWAII.>>ONE SECOND.>>>IT’S AN ISLAND. IT’S ONE COMMUNITY AND IF WE
DON’T FIGURE IT OUT, WE’RE ALL SINKING.>>WE’RE ALL IN THE CANOE.>>>ONE CANOE, LITERALLY.>>>OK. WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH,
FOLKS, AND MAHALO TO ALL OF YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT, AND WE
THANK OUR GUESTS, SHOPO, THE ES AND A LAW FIRM, AND KRISTEEN
HANSELMAN FROM THE UHPA. NEXT WEEK, DESPITE THE DRASTIC
DECLINE IN RESIDENTIAL ROOFTOP SOLAR INSTITUTIONS, HOW WILL
SOLAR PLAY A MAJOR ROLE IN MEETING HAWAII’S AMBITIOUS
CLEAN ENERGY GOALS? WE’LL BE TALKING ABOUT THAT
NEXT WEEK ON INSIGHTS. I’M DARRYL HUFF FOR INSIGHTS ON
PBS HAWAII. A HUI HO.

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